Well I think 'twas pneumonia in fact..if right..because she got a cold. And there was a nurse there. She was nurse O'Hara in Shrule.. she was very old. She wasn't married...she had a few old brothers there, and they died too. They lived in a house above Jack Craddock's there..

Now be God there was a bit of a flu going, a bad cold going at the time alright. But they wanted to put her in a car. These now -there was a few cars there. The weather was bad now. There was a lot of horses and sidecars, and it was as bad now the horses couldn't travel the road to night. Ah? ( reaction to Delia's offer for us to stay the night)

Anyways, anyways my mother wouldn't go in the car. 'Twas the ould custom to go up in the sidecar, one side of the corpse..

Ah..yes. 

Did you ever hear that now?

Yes .. 

And I knew it was but...and she had, she used to wear a - 'twas that time 'twas very nice - a cape and a bonnet. Did you ever hear about..  

Ah, yes..yeh .

Well I seen the odd woman but she had it from old like. She had it when she got married - an all velvet thing. I could see that down three quarter now on the cape, the bonnet and the big harp.

I have often heard you talk about her. You seem to have a lot of time for your mother; she seemed to have been a great lady, was she?

Ah, she was....she was, she was, she was gifted! I remember this now.. and when we’d be reading or spelling - she (his mother) might be doing something..we used to have a lot of pigs that time..she might be fixing up shtuff (stuff), and they having the tea ready for supper, and she'd have us at our books, and she say ‘Spell it,' and she'd be abroadside (outside), and we’d have only the first three letters spelt - oh, that's definite.. I could think of that now and I was even young, going to The Neale school myself and I didn't get half the time going to school, because I used to have to go with my father, I used to have to go a quarter of a mile in the morning, giving cattle straw..do you see ..and be back in school then at nine o'clock in The Neale after that, but..yes she'd tell us spell it, and we’d spell the word and we wouldn't have it half spelt.. we wouldn't have three letters and she'd have the word finished for us..tell us to keep on and was there any other word, and she still working and telling us that. Ah, she was gifted! She was gifted and she was a great scholar. She'd read the paper and everything. She used to get the paper too...and she had the loveliest head of hair, curly hair..like that now (as he envelops his head with his hands), and there was no hair oil going that time or shampoo or powder or anything else either, and I remember her saying now like they'd rub some kind of oil, paraffin oil. I remember seeing her doing that. I used to feel to the heart for her alright, but she died anyways (a tear in his eye), because she was a good mother, a very good one and everyone loved her. There wasn't one that left the village when we come to Cahermaculick - I think they didn't shake any of the Caulfields or even the Hollerans - and 'twas like a funeral outside our house, the day we were leaving. I used to come up to Cahermaculick.. for a month before we came to live in it .. for more. My father used to have sheep, hoggets, a score of hoggets in it, and we used to have mangels ( a type of beet used as cattle-food ) thrown in ..in .in the stable that was there you know, and I'd come up twice a week.. Wednesday.. after school, and I'd come up and go down again in across here at Ardmoran and out across and down Ballinacarra and out at Illanmore Road opposite Keady's and home and..Wednesday and a Sunday, and throw mangels out to the hoggets so much of them, and I'd have to go around O'Brien's then looking for them, and they'd be back behind O'Brien's you know - O'Brien hadn't land that time; he was a herd. He got that holding later again you know, a few years after us getting a holding...Gaps or anything wasn't fixed up that time..(He was a‘ herd' means that he was employed by Lord Kilmaine, who owned all the townland of Cahermaculick, to attend to his stock.) 

No, they wouldn't have.. walls or anything like that. 

Only an odd fence may be fixed you know.. 

O yes, she must have been, she must have been a great woman..

Oh..she was she was. Everyone, everyone back there- what they said, ‘She'd make peace in the parish don't mind the village.. 

Isn't that extraordinary..

And she would! If there was anyone there now that had words. I know that myself. You mention of your mates' going on .. neighbours you know they might have words, and she'd attempt talking to one and one again and she'd make peace in the village. The Bigginses down the end of our land and with borrowed land from the New Turloughmore they used to call it, and they used to go up to Keady's with eggs on every Saturday night. The Biggins weren't married this time. There were two houses of the Bigginses in it, Pat and Luke, and..they..no one in the village would let them travel up. There were two stripes(farms) more with our and we were in the middle, and they could come through our land, but the other neighbours wouldn't let them travel up; and they came up to our house the day we were leaving; they were crying; they said they were finished now; they could never travel Colemans' land again. Do you see now .. do you see now! Weren't it nice alright! But they were so sorry..she'd make peace not alone in the village but in a parish; and she would, she would! Everyone liked her - even the priests, when they'd come there I remember when there used to be stations, and what the priests used to have that time when they come out, no motors cars, a horse and saddle. They used to come out you know and they'd put the horse up then in the stable. The people would take the horse up there. There was Father O'Malley there; I remember him, and then you had Father Pendergast. He used to come out. Father Pendergast was the parish priest. Father O'Malley was the curate. Well the Parish of The Neale was the same as now. There was Cross..Cross, Cong and The Neale. 'Twas the one parish, and before that the old parish, 'twas the parish of not The Neale in olden times..'twas the parish, and it was even down in the Certificate Books - I seen it too the first time - the Parish of Kilmolara..

Kilmolara..! 

Do you see now! The Parish of Kilmolara. That's is the burying grounds now do you see. Well that was the old parish..Turloughmore you know was in the Parish I suppose of Kilmolara in olden times until they gave the name of the parish to The Neale..

But how far now is it from where you were born ...you were born in Turloughmore ,isn't that right?

Ah t'would be only about a mile and a half..

How many years by the way were you at school anyway? What age were you when you finished. 

Wait an I see now..

About thirteen or? 

In and about that..

 About that..well now you know as you come towards Kilmolara, do you come through Turloughmore?

Well you could come...go from Turloughmore to ..there was a road leading on that way to Kilmolara. You go out at Creevach. You go over that ways over and that road would bring you out at the crossroads at Kilmaine again you know.. where Kenny, Dan Kenny is from, over that ways now Coollisduffin and Ballylassagh, over that ways..

O I thought that Dan Kenny actually came from near Hollymount, no?

No, Dan Kenny is from the parish of Kilmaine..Ballylassagh there where the ..you know the time they used to call it Culleentie..

Culleentie! Oh, yes.. 

There was a village inside that woodeen. That's where Dan Kenny's place. That's where Mick is living yet.
Did you know that Jimmy Duddy that was up there in the Shrule road was in there, and he had a brother there, Johnny. They were .. they reckon they were great men. My father knew them in olden times. Jimmy, Jimmy Duddy was out of there where the Kennies were, do you see..

Ah when I go home next time, you'll have to take me to Turloughmore and show me where your parents' home was. 

You wouldn't know where it was at all because they have the walls..new fields made there and the walls..

But when I go home next time, you'll have to take me there.

I will but you won't see the ruins..

Alright, I won't ..just the area, just the area..

You won't see the ruins but I can show it to you alright. 

Alright, another thing .. I know you want to go to bed and I want to let you go to bed..to have a sleep. Let me see if this (tape) is still working ...it is. Now, Jim, Jim went to Canada. What age was Jim when he died?.. Roughly? I recall when we got the telegram at home; I was only very, very young. We were over in the big meadow and we were turning the hay. What age was he? 

Not sure now, was it nineteen years, because how I know now there was an election, a general election coming off and he was gone. He was in Canada this time and he wouldn't have a vote for it. At that time you'd want to be twenty one. Of course they have a vote now at eighteen.. 

But he went to Canada when he was about what, what age? 

Well nineteen years.. 

Well he died about 1947 I'd say or '48 . 

About that anyway.. 

Was he younger or older than you? 

Aw he was the youngest in the family.

How many years younger than you would he have been?

Ah, well... John, I had a brother now in England..

I know..

Well I'm two years older than John and... 

Jim would have been a couple of years younger than John..

There was another Girl between me and John. Her name was - I seen her...

What was her name?

A lovely girl, Bridget.

Bridget, she died. What age was she when she died?

But Jim then, Jim was the youngest. Jim was younger than John. Mary has two years over me and though she want making out it was only a year, but she has two. By the way I heard my mother saying.. She has two anyways. I had two years over John, because there was another girl, Bridget born between ..

Yeh..

But Jim then, Jim was the youngest. Jim was younger than John. Mary has two years over me and though she want making out it was only a year, but she has two. By the way I heard my mother saying.. She has two anyways. I had two years over John, because there was another girl, Bridget born between ..

So you so you'd be roughly six years older that Jim.

Yeh..yeh I would.

About that, six years..I see..now tell me.. 

He died in Canada..

I know - how many kids did Jim have ..in Montreal? 

I think it's five.. He's got four anyways. I think it's five. One died the same time as himself..around the same time as himself..

Ah, ..and his wife comes from out around Achill, does she? 

Achill Island..

 Achill Island..

I think they moved.. they're all moved out of there now. But she has a sister in Castlebar..

 Had she..

I do know.. she married I think a contractor ..Roach, I think. 

 Roach!

I think it's Roach.. but ah she has a sister there in Castlebar anyways.. O be God she looked good the last time she was at home. Her son - he was twelve years she said that time in the police. A lovely man..a lovely man. He was the only son..

I believe..

Two daughters and a son..

 I believe a daughter of hers came home after my leaving too..

Oh, she did! They've all got good jobs. O she was graduated this time. I seen her over at Swifts. You'd know well. She was all..she had them rings on her fingers ..now you see..

 Well, all right, Dad, that's a good bit at the moment..

He .. I was very near .. I was telling them but herself didn't know.. 

 Very near going over?

He brought a big bottle of whisky , and we spent a few hours in Shrule after mass, and he came in back.. didn't delay at Butlers'. They came back and he walked right in and left it on the table in the room and ' Patrick', he said, ‘that's for you'. 

And what is his name?

Jim, Jim..

Jim after his father..

After his father - after his father.

And how many kids did John have in England, do you know ?

John was married twice..

That's right..yeh. 

The first wife, she was a lovely woman. Be God he has her picture in his pocket yet.

Is that right?

I was told that..I was told that along time ago.. And I don't know now did he take it up when I was over there and show it to me in the this hotel. But in any case, in any case..are ye tired lads? (to the boys - Sons Martin and Michael, 12 and 11 year olds sitting close by, showed remarkable patience and understanding .) 

 Yeh, we better let them go..

He got married again to another one. She's an English lady..She's a Sasanach..haha..

She's a Sasanach..yes..But it was nice to see him go home though after so many years in England., after I suppose the best part of forty years there..

'Twas nearly forty years out there. 

Isn't it..after all those years..

Thirty nine anyway. Well I knew about forty. John Joe said to me, ‘Dad', he said,‘you'll have to go out and see John'. These days they go often you know, himself and Bridie and them, up the highway now from Wood Green..

I was sorry I hadn't..

Sunday morning very early we got off and that's the time the petrol was scarce in England.

Alright, alright, I'll tell you something now, just to interrupt you.. 

We convinced him to come home and he came home the next year.

That's good. Well when I was there, we left Coventry, because we had been to Coventry to see Michael Joe Swift and others, and we left there at I think half past seven in the morning to get back to London, and we passed by and John Joe said to me, ‘Down there on left is John Coleman's. It was about eight o'clock in the morning or a quarter to eight, ‘but it is too early', he said, ‘to call down'. I was sorry we hadn't called even at that hour to see him. But you have Jim's children's address in Montreal? You'll have to send it to me when you get back.

If I can find it now again..

Ah go on you can .

I'll do my best..

But you can get it from Mary..

You never know they might send another card.

But you can get it from Mary Swift anyway.. 

I'd get it from Mary Swift in any case.. It would be a nice thing you know for you to have it anyways..

It would be lovely. I don't know...

O he's a lovely man alright! And he wanted to find out all naturally enough about his father and...

I bet he did too...

He was a great fella (his brother, Jim), he putting all the Irish fellows working. He was foreman. The boss, the boss he was a very big man out there. The time the free beef was going - you remember..why wouldn't you!

No I wouldn't remember that, no..

There was ...De Valera was in this time and there was free beef then going.. 'twas the biggest..

He had gone over before I was born -Jim had gone to Canada before I was born..

Ah sure he had but I mean then...I don't know that in your time there was free beef. Ah why wouldn't. That's not so many years ago. 'Twas going there and people were going for it you know and they were getting free beef. And there were two lads working for Jim, two brothers and he got them on the job - Matie Burke could tell you too about it - and their two lorries down in Abbey Street - you know where the pratie market used to be in Abbey Street, Ballinrobe?

Yes..

And they were handing out this free beef out there and people collecting it you know, taking it in big junks, four or five pounds or maybe more. And we just called in..we seen the people collecting it, and I had a bicycle, a rally bike left in at Stantons the same day, and just killing time I went down; and one of these two said to the other brother, one of them said to the other, ‘Take the eye out of me', he said, ‘if that's not a brother of Jimmy.' Matie Burke was there. Of course Matie Burke was a bit.. you know, and ‘sgad', said Matie, ‘he had a brother named Jim.' ‘Where?' said the fellas, the two fellas. They were from Ballyhaunis. A good way up they used to come selling beef there, to every fair place, you know. And ah..Matie Burke wasn't able to answer and I said, ‘Canada'. ‘What part?' they said, and I said, ‘Montreal'. ‘Ah', they said then, and they were only half an hour there and when we got into conversation, they closed up their lorries - you know they had these covers on them - closed it up and about twelve o'clock or half twelve went into you know where McGiggs is there in Ballinrobe. We went in there and waited till eleven or half twelve at night.

And they told you all about him?

And now just now everyone was in bed when we came home and up Kilmaine. Meself and Matie Burke cycled up, and they told us all about him, and I said, ‘Ye done well in the job'.. Do you see..they were able to come home and buy lorries and sell beef; and they said they'd done alright, and we may thank your brother for it. He got all the Irish fellas that's going over; he got them in in the job. Ah they told us everything. There was this big tunnel down in the ground and they went in and he gave them a hand. Aw he was mighty strong you know. You wouldn't think..

Do you know what he died from?

I do. Haemorrhage. (I should point out here that I was with my father turning hay in the big meadow when he received the telegram about his brother Jim's death. I was ten at the time but can so vividly recall Dad's distress at the news. It was the first timeI had seen him so very upset that the memory of it has stayed with me.

Where? ..

At the finish he was in hospital and he wrote home, wrote home and he said not to be troubled about the wife; he said the government would look after her and sure they did too you know. O he had everything off and he said the government would see to it that she would be well away. They did too..Canada..and he ah he died from the haemorrhage and the lads told us the same thing.. And they were at his funeral too..before they came home.. (What Dad has mentioned here springs I'm sure more from how he would like to think or believe that things worked out rather than how they actually eventuated. The last thing he would want to think was that conditions in the circumstances were anything like they were in Ireland at the time - the very thought of this would have been too horrible to entertain.)

We'll finish for now, Dad, and talk some more later.

  .........................................................................

But that 'later' never came because the next time I was to see Dad was a fortnight before his death in 1986. I am, however, grateful to have had the opportunity during Dad and Mam's visit to Sydney in 1977 to record this interview. Since then Patricia and I have visited Montreal and met Maud Coleman, uncle Jim's widow, and her children and grandchildren.